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	<title>Comments on: Phil Goff and the race card</title>
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	<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/</link>
	<description>Edited by Gordon Campbell</description>
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		<title>By: Joe Blow</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-12006</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-12006</guid>
		<description>Why did they all have to leave NZ? I just went overseas got married and brought her back here. Much easier. All the Kiwi girls overseas were too busy chasing foreign accents to notice little old me anyway... My cousin just married a Chilean man who lives here and my sister is with a young Japanese joker whose lived here 3 years now... Nice fella...

I think its all really about the fact that we&#039;re about as exotic to each other as a fart under the bed covers late at night...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did they all have to leave NZ? I just went overseas got married and brought her back here. Much easier. All the Kiwi girls overseas were too busy chasing foreign accents to notice little old me anyway&#8230; My cousin just married a Chilean man who lives here and my sister is with a young Japanese joker whose lived here 3 years now&#8230; Nice fella&#8230;</p>
<p>I think its all really about the fact that we&#8217;re about as exotic to each other as a fart under the bed covers late at night&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dana delaney.china beach.</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-12005</link>
		<dc:creator>dana delaney.china beach.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-12005</guid>
		<description>Hah, Bunny, you think that&#039;s proof? I come from a family of 8 women, all left New Zealand because of the men, all married, 1 married a swede, 1 a mexican, 1 married an american, another a russian, then there was the cuban, somehow an australian was permitted, I beleive ther is an iranian, and also an israeli, how many is that, that&#039;s 8.  So they all did pretty well for themselves and enjoy life a lot.  Think about something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hah, Bunny, you think that&#8217;s proof? I come from a family of 8 women, all left New Zealand because of the men, all married, 1 married a swede, 1 a mexican, 1 married an american, another a russian, then there was the cuban, somehow an australian was permitted, I beleive ther is an iranian, and also an israeli, how many is that, that&#8217;s 8.  So they all did pretty well for themselves and enjoy life a lot.  Think about something.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Blow</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11993</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Blow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11993</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Labour Party voter and I agree with Goff&#039;s statements that the burden on the tax payer is too high under the new agreement and I think Goff&#039;s comments about Hone were fair enough but the &#039;preferential treatment for Maori&#039; line has gone too far. Even if he has somehow managed to wangle it in his speech that he isn&#039;t playing the race card after all when I first heard him coming out with this I didn&#039;t hear anything about not re-opening Treaty Settlements I heard &#039;preferential treatment for Maori&#039; loud and clear! And I&#039;m sure that dog whistle was heard loud and clear elsewhere. 
 
So what if some QC retained by Crown Law said &quot;there is no evidence of a breach of the Crown’s obligations&quot;. That doesn&#039;t mean that it won&#039;t go to court and end up being quite the opposite conclusion, but then I guess if that happened and Goff was in government he would just legislate over the court&#039;s decision like Labour did with the Foreshore and Seabed Act... I wonder how much that whole process would cost the taxpayer over the coming years?

In any case, the reason some of these pre-1990 forests would be worth less under the ETS is because they were valued on the assumption that they could be cut and turned to dairy. If anything a deal whereby these forests stay forested while iwi get compensated through more forests being planted on Crown land does not sound like a bad thing for the environment if you ask me.

I think Goff should stick to the issues that really rangle such as the cost to the public through a slower reduction rate in free credits and Hone being a wise guy rather than getting sucked into the race game. 

I&#039;m sorry to say this Gordon but I never thought I&#039;d see him stoop so low. He&#039;s looking very desperate. Unlike Don Brash he&#039;s leading a centre-LEFT party so he might find that what he gains in racist swing voters he losses in the support he already has. It&#039;s likely to turn GREEN... I hope the Winston Peter&#039;s gloss doesn&#039;t work for him and we&#039;ve heard the last of this. Still the latest polls haven&#039;t been taken pre-grey power speech so he might gain in the polls and want more... Let&#039;s hope not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a Labour Party voter and I agree with Goff&#8217;s statements that the burden on the tax payer is too high under the new agreement and I think Goff&#8217;s comments about Hone were fair enough but the &#8216;preferential treatment for Maori&#8217; line has gone too far. Even if he has somehow managed to wangle it in his speech that he isn&#8217;t playing the race card after all when I first heard him coming out with this I didn&#8217;t hear anything about not re-opening Treaty Settlements I heard &#8216;preferential treatment for Maori&#8217; loud and clear! And I&#8217;m sure that dog whistle was heard loud and clear elsewhere. </p>
<p>So what if some QC retained by Crown Law said &#8220;there is no evidence of a breach of the Crown’s obligations&#8221;. That doesn&#8217;t mean that it won&#8217;t go to court and end up being quite the opposite conclusion, but then I guess if that happened and Goff was in government he would just legislate over the court&#8217;s decision like Labour did with the Foreshore and Seabed Act&#8230; I wonder how much that whole process would cost the taxpayer over the coming years?</p>
<p>In any case, the reason some of these pre-1990 forests would be worth less under the ETS is because they were valued on the assumption that they could be cut and turned to dairy. If anything a deal whereby these forests stay forested while iwi get compensated through more forests being planted on Crown land does not sound like a bad thing for the environment if you ask me.</p>
<p>I think Goff should stick to the issues that really rangle such as the cost to the public through a slower reduction rate in free credits and Hone being a wise guy rather than getting sucked into the race game. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry to say this Gordon but I never thought I&#8217;d see him stoop so low. He&#8217;s looking very desperate. Unlike Don Brash he&#8217;s leading a centre-LEFT party so he might find that what he gains in racist swing voters he losses in the support he already has. It&#8217;s likely to turn GREEN&#8230; I hope the Winston Peter&#8217;s gloss doesn&#8217;t work for him and we&#8217;ve heard the last of this. Still the latest polls haven&#8217;t been taken pre-grey power speech so he might gain in the polls and want more&#8230; Let&#8217;s hope not!</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11987</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11987</guid>
		<description>Jum - Agree with your comments.

Earlier this year there was a scoopit link on this site to a study about the political style of US conservatives. It concluded their default mode was typically a sociopathic &quot;win at all costs&quot; &quot;never admit you&#039;re wrong&quot; approach.

It is a mystery of history that the poor majority usually let themselves be ruled by the rich majority...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jum &#8211; Agree with your comments.</p>
<p>Earlier this year there was a scoopit link on this site to a study about the political style of US conservatives. It concluded their default mode was typically a sociopathic &#8220;win at all costs&#8221; &#8220;never admit you&#8217;re wrong&#8221; approach.</p>
<p>It is a mystery of history that the poor majority usually let themselves be ruled by the rich majority&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bunny</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11986</link>
		<dc:creator>bunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11986</guid>
		<description>@Jum

Only a Kiwi woman would try to turn a debate about racism into a debate about sexism.

I only have one thing to say about the defective sexist women in New Zealand. 30000 men short because they all left NZ. I come from a family of three men, all left NZ because of the women, all married. Two to Australians and one to a POM. Think about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jum</p>
<p>Only a Kiwi woman would try to turn a debate about racism into a debate about sexism.</p>
<p>I only have one thing to say about the defective sexist women in New Zealand. 30000 men short because they all left NZ. I come from a family of three men, all left NZ because of the women, all married. Two to Australians and one to a POM. Think about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jum</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11985</link>
		<dc:creator>Jum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11985</guid>
		<description>This sort of feedback from supporters of Labour, or at least, leaners towards, is what I have always liked about the &#039;left&#039; - they are not afraid to call their leaders to account.

Unfortunately,the other side focus and subject the &#039;left&#039; to ceaseless attacks as if they, the &#039;right&#039; can do no wrong.  This will probably lose Labour the next election, because of their sense of fair play.

Meanwhile, NActM&#039;s poster boys Harawira and Henry continue to attack all sorts of people including mothers and intellectually handicapped people and the press and voters love them. It seems that women and vulnerable members of our society are open season for these men. 

New Zealanders continue to fascinate me with their senselessness and their misogyny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sort of feedback from supporters of Labour, or at least, leaners towards, is what I have always liked about the &#8216;left&#8217; &#8211; they are not afraid to call their leaders to account.</p>
<p>Unfortunately,the other side focus and subject the &#8216;left&#8217; to ceaseless attacks as if they, the &#8216;right&#8217; can do no wrong.  This will probably lose Labour the next election, because of their sense of fair play.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, NActM&#8217;s poster boys Harawira and Henry continue to attack all sorts of people including mothers and intellectually handicapped people and the press and voters love them. It seems that women and vulnerable members of our society are open season for these men. </p>
<p>New Zealanders continue to fascinate me with their senselessness and their misogyny.</p>
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		<title>By: George Darroch</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11984</link>
		<dc:creator>George Darroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11984</guid>
		<description>It should also be noted that recent polling shows Labour&#039;s support among Maori has continued to collapse. I can see why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should also be noted that recent polling shows Labour&#8217;s support among Maori has continued to collapse. I can see why.</p>
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		<title>By: George Darroch</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11983</link>
		<dc:creator>George Darroch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11983</guid>
		<description>Much of Goff&#039;s speech is fine.

However, much of it is an attempt to set the mainstream against the Maori Party, and it may succeed. But Goff has done it in such a way as to attack the Maori who support the broad direction of the Maori Party, a party that has always been incomprehensible to Labour.

What is offensive is his attempts to delegitimise Maori offense over the Seabed and Foreshore as unreasonable, and as &quot;being cynically opened for politics&quot;, rather than being on the basis of the loss of mana whenua.

Also designed to set the Maori Party against the mainstream his deliberate use of the &quot;grievance industry&quot; meme that National, ACT and New Zealand First have so thoroughly mined.

Also despicable is his attempt to whip the &quot;birthright to the beaches&quot; meme of Maori threatening to deny access that he just a few lines previously attacks National for using.

He talks about re-opening wounds in order for them to fester. What irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of Goff&#8217;s speech is fine.</p>
<p>However, much of it is an attempt to set the mainstream against the Maori Party, and it may succeed. But Goff has done it in such a way as to attack the Maori who support the broad direction of the Maori Party, a party that has always been incomprehensible to Labour.</p>
<p>What is offensive is his attempts to delegitimise Maori offense over the Seabed and Foreshore as unreasonable, and as &#8220;being cynically opened for politics&#8221;, rather than being on the basis of the loss of mana whenua.</p>
<p>Also designed to set the Maori Party against the mainstream his deliberate use of the &#8220;grievance industry&#8221; meme that National, ACT and New Zealand First have so thoroughly mined.</p>
<p>Also despicable is his attempt to whip the &#8220;birthright to the beaches&#8221; meme of Maori threatening to deny access that he just a few lines previously attacks National for using.</p>
<p>He talks about re-opening wounds in order for them to fester. What irony.</p>
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		<title>By: Danyl Mclauchlan</title>
		<link>http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/comment-page-1/#comment-11982</link>
		<dc:creator>Danyl Mclauchlan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2009/11/27/gordon-campbell-on-phil-goff-and-the-race-card/#comment-11982</guid>
		<description>Goff makes some good points in his speech; but you can&#039;t get past the fact that he&#039;s titled it &#039;Nationhood&#039; after Don Brash&#039;s Orewa speech, and that he used it to announce he&#039;s backtracked on his previous position on the foreshore and seabed bill, an issue that has nothing to do with the ETS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goff makes some good points in his speech; but you can&#8217;t get past the fact that he&#8217;s titled it &#8216;Nationhood&#8217; after Don Brash&#8217;s Orewa speech, and that he used it to announce he&#8217;s backtracked on his previous position on the foreshore and seabed bill, an issue that has nothing to do with the ETS.</p>
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